Can we talk about Israel and Palestine?

The endless spiral of tragedy seems too depressing to contemplate. But beyond the repetitive segments of the 24-hour news cycle, a few articles are worth paying attention to.


Nobody I know, including me, wants to talk about the war in Gaza and Israel. Sometimes we feel compelled to: It is the news, after all. It is consequential, and informed citizens in the world’s most powerful democracy should form opinions about it.

And yet …

I’ve been witnessing, experiencing, and occasionally complaining about this phenomenon for nearly a month now (since the October 7 Hamas attacks on southern Israel). But it really came home to me Friday evening. I was at a church potluck dinner. My church is full of opinionated people, many of whom have a fairly high assessment of their grasp of world affairs. Then someone brought up the war, and there was an awkward silence. Eventually we segued onto some other topic.

I did not break the silence, because anything it occurred to me to say sounded either pompous or stupid. I have no simple paradigm that lays everything out clearly, and no five-point plan for peace. The people who can fit everything into a simple frame — whether that frame is the Global Zionist Conspiracy or God’s promise to Abraham’s descendants in Genesis 15 — are more likely to be part of the problem than part of the solution. The situation seems to illustrate a famous Bertrand Russell quote:

One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid, and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision.

And yet, a simple Google search for a source shows that this quote is out of context: Russell’s next line was “I do not believe this is necessary”, and from there he laid out a hopeful message of how he believed human happiness might be achieved.

I have no comparable vision. But if I have no grand explanation to present, Russell at least inspires me to start collecting articles and ideas that seem useful if we want to think seriously about the situation.

Colonialism plays a role, but maybe not the one you think. In the critique of Israel that is popular in some left-wing circles, Zionism is just one more example of White colonists stealing land from indigenous peoples. Previous examples include the United States, where Native Americans were steadily pushed onto smaller and smaller reservations, and the apartheid regime of 20th-century South Africa. In this narrative, the foundation of Israel is an unjust act of Jewish aggression from the beginning, and all the subsequent unhappiness — from the Nakba of 1948 to last month’s Hamas attacks and the Israeli reprisals — can be laid at the door of the early Zionists and their contemporary successors.

Simon Sebag Montefiore does a good debunking of this view in “The Decolonization Narrative Is Dangerous and False” in The Atlantic: Most of the Jews who moved to Israel in the last century or two were not “settlers” so much as refugees — from Czarist pogroms, Nazi death camps, Soviet oppression, Ethiopia, or long-vanished Jewish quarters of Muslim cities like Baghdad. Many of these refugees (especially the Ethiopians) do not fit any reasonable definition of White. Josh Marshall echoes this point:

You cannot look at the range of inhabitants of Israel and all the Palestinian territories together and think the conflict is fundamentally or consistently about skin color. Many Ashkenazi Jews [i.e. from European backgrounds], in American terms, look white. But more than half of Israel’s Jewish population is descended from Jews from the Arab and Islamic worlds. There are many Palestinians and Israeli Jews who could not be readily identified as one or the other by physical appearance or skin color alone.

There is a role for colonialism in this narrative, but it is more subtle. (I’m leaving Montefiore’s article at this point and going off on my own interpretation of history.) In the aftermath of the Holocaust (and the Western world’s relative indifference to it as it was happening), the Zionist vision of a sanctuary for Jews — a place that would always accept them and never throw them out — became compelling for many non-Jews. Once, Western liberals might have imagined that civilization and education would eventually overcome the ancient prejudices, but what society had been more civilized or better educated than Germany? And among those ancient prejudices, antisemitism seemed virtually unique. Jews, of course, are not the only group that has ever been persecuted, and the Holocaust was not history’s only genocide. But antisemitism’s ability to subside for decades and then spring up with renewed virulence made virtually any nation’s guarantees suspect.

In addition to that theoretical justification, there was a practical problem that needed a solution: Postwar Europe was full of displaced persons, including many survivors of the death camps. They couldn’t be sent back to their families, who were either dead or similarly displaced. Often their entire villages no longer existed, or were now occupied by the people who had collaborated with the Nazis to send them away. But they had to go somewhere.

Palestine was of course where the Zionists envisioned their homeland, but the great powers were not bound by their preferences. (Michael Chabon’s novel The Yiddish Policemen’s Union takes place in an alternate history where part of Alaska became a sanctuary for Jews fleeing the Holocaust.) There was even a certain logic to making the nations that caused the problem pay the price: What if, say, Bavaria, where Hitler’s movement got its start, had been set aside as a Jewish homeland?

But even suggesting such a thing sounds laughable, because Bavaria already had citizens (some of whom share my last name, though I’ve never met them) and cities like Munich. But so did everyplace else, including Palestine. The world had no desirable empty spaces. The challenge was to find a place whose current inhabitants volunteered, or could be induced to cooperate.

Or whose desires could be ignored.

What separated Palestine from everyplace else wasn’t just the Zionist vision, it was that the Arab world had no power. World War I had brought down the Ottoman Empire, and the subsequent treaty of 1922 divided the region into a British mandate and a French mandate. These colonial powers then drew the outlines of the subsequent states: Syria and Lebanon by the French, and Iraq, Jordan, and the Hejaz (a forerunner of Saudi Arabia) by the British. The strife-torn histories of several of these states comes in part from their unnatural founding. (As we saw during the Iraq War, there is little reason for Iraqi Kurdistan — largely the Ottoman province of Mosul — to belong to the same country as the former Ottoman provinces of Baghdad and Basra.)

When Britain and the United Nations (with American support) split the Palestine mandate into a Jewish state and an Arab state, the great powers were doing what great powers often do: paying their moral debts with someone else’s assets.

Today, Americans often shake our heads at the two sides: Why can’t they get along? We are dismayed when every dispute seems to have no beginning: The Israelis have no choice but to do Z, because the Palestinians did Y. And the Palestinians had no choice but to do Y, because the Israelis had already done X … back and back and back to A and beyond. “Why not leave them to fight it out?” we sometimes think, because it has nothing to do with us.

But it has everything to do with us. We played a large role in the great-power coalition that redrew the world after World War II. That arrangement set the Israeli Jews and the Palestinians up to fight with each other. What has happened since was not fate; both sides have made mistakes and have blown opportunities to seek peace. But it’s not all their fault either.

Jews deserve a state. The Western powers should not have made Palestine provide one. That is history now and there’s no undoing it. Generations have been born and died in Israel; moving either the Israelis or the Palestinians somewhere else would be no more just than moving you or me from our homes. But we also can’t wash our hands of the current situation. If there is some way to resolve it that demands sacrifice, the US, Britain, the EU, and perhaps other countries should be ready to make some of those sacrifices.

The situations in Gaza and the West Bank may be linked, but we can’t lose sight of the differences. Here I would point you to Matt Yglesias’ “Israel’s Two Wars“. He believes that Israel has little choice but to root Hamas out of Gaza (with all the costs that entails), but opposes what has been happening slowly for decades on the West Bank.

while Israel is waging a just war in Gaza, they are in parallel waging an unjust war in the West Bank. This second war is much less spectacular, much more of a slow burn, and at the moment, is causing much less death and destruction to innocent civilians. That these two wars — one just but spectacularly deadly, one unjust but lower-key — are playing out in tandem is contributing to a confused and polarized debate over a set of issues that were already quite fraught.

Yglesias believes that the closest the two sides came to peace was at the 2008 summit in Annapolis. The framework of that near-agreement was that Israel got to keep its most populous West Bank settlements, in exchange for giving the new Palestinian state land elsewhere. Obviously that compromise gets harder for Palestinians to accept the more settlements there are. Yglesias believes that sabotaging such a two-state solution has been a deliberate Netanyahu policy.

Josh Marshall interprets Netanyahu slightly differently:

Benjamin Netanyahu’s return to power in 2009 was based on a very different premise [than an Annapolis-style agreement]: that the Palestinian issue could be managed indefinitely rather than resolved and with no major repercussions. …

For those of us who never believed this could be true, it did slowly become a matter of reason over experience. That couldn’t go on forever. And yet, year after year somehow it did. Israel’s economy grew stronger. It normalized relations with more Arab countries. It even managed a de facto normalization and something close to a de facto, though sub rosa, alliance with Saudi Arabia. It couldn’t work and yet it kept working. Until it didn’t.

What exploded Netanyahu’s legitimacy and reputation on October 7th wasn’t just an abject national security failure. It exploded the whole idea that the occupation could be effectively managed and that Benjamin Netanyahu could manage it.

He sees a return to the Netanyahu status quo as a failure of imagination: a simultaneous inability to imagine peace and an inability to imagine the nightmares that will continue to happen until both sides are willing to take risks for peace.

What might happen in Gaza. One of the most dismal aspects of thinking about this war is that all roads seem to lead nowhere. Simply punishing Hamas, but leaving it in control of Gaza, just starts the clock ticking down to the next attack. But occupying Gaza would be an endless quagmire.

In Iraq, the US demonstrated the limits of military power: A superior military can go wherever it wants and destroy whatever it chooses. Any goal that can be achieved by going places and destroying things can be achieved by military might alone. However, neither winning over a population that hates you nor establishing a government they will cooperate with fits that description.

Israel wants to wind up living next to a Gaza that is stable rather than a launching pad for future attacks like the ones we just saw. But what kind of government could achieve such a goal?

Francis Foer takes on this challenge in “Tell Me How This Ends“.

Thus far, the Israelis have answered the question only in the negative. Although some of the ultranationalists in the Netanyahu government openly fantasize about reoccupying Gaza, Defense Minister Yoav Gallant has said that his government won’t pursue that path, which would come at a financial, military, and moral cost that Israel apparently doesn’t want to bear. But the alternative to a postwar occupation of some sort is lawlessness, which would permit Hamas’s return, thus undermining the very purpose of the war.

Foer asked “a former prime minister, a former national security adviser, and a former head of Mossad, as well as longtime diplomats and analysts in Washington” to imagine “a plausible endgame for Gaza”.

What I found was both a surprising degree of consensus on a plan for life after Hamas, and a lack of faith in the current Israeli government’s ability to execute it.

That plan has a number of moving parts, and requires a number of countries, including the Gazans themselves, to make sensible decisions. The basic steps are

  • Israel goes into Gaza and destroys Hamas as a viable government. But it does not stay as an occupying power.
  • During a transition period that is framed from the beginning as temporary, a collection of Arab countries not aligned with Iran — the article suggests Egypt, Jordan, the Emirates, and Morocco — manage a reconstruction. Presumably, this reconstruction is funded by some combination of the oil-rich Arab states, the US, and the EU.
  • What makes the transition temporary is turning Gaza over to the Palestinian Authority that currently oversees the West Bank.

Each participant buy-in might be difficult to achieve, but Foer tries to answer those objections: Egypt will want its companies to get reconstruction contracts. The PA will want to “substantially [bolster] its position in the West Bank.”

It would almost certainly demand stringent constraints on settlement expansion and promises of greater autonomy, measures that Netanhyahu and coalition partners abhor.

Now we’re back to the “sacrifices for peace” from the last section. So why would the Israeli government (whatever it looks like when the war ends) make such concessions?

In the midst of such gloom, I also thought I detected muffled hints of hope. Israelis almost universally invoked the unexpected aftermath of the 1973 Yom Kippur War, the other cataclysmic lapse in the history of the nation’s defense, so searing that it scrambled the politics of both Israel and its neighbors. Some of the Jewish state’s old enemies finally accepted its existence. Fervent hawks in Israel became ambitious peacemakers. No Israeli was willing to stake their reputation on the rise of a new alignment, but they all wanted to believe in its imminence, beyond the carnage.

A million things can go wrong with the plan Foer describes, and with the resolution of Gaza as a stepping stone to a broader peace. Certainly, plans that seemed more promising have failed in the past. Peace is definitely a long shot. But we have to hope that at some point all involved will realize that there is no alternative. At that point, an admonition of the original Zionist, Theodore Herzl, can be repurposed: “If you will it, it is no dream.

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Comments

  • Anonymous  On November 6, 2023 at 9:40 am

    Not overly hopeful, but the most hopeful appreciation of the situation I’ve seen, and informed by a well-honed ability to sift out the true and pertinent facts. Thank-you.

  • Anonymous  On November 6, 2023 at 10:28 am

    Thank you

  • Geoff Arnold  On November 6, 2023 at 10:35 am

    The obvious question about the “plausible endgame” is that it ignores the “slow, unjust war”. Neither the PA, nor the proposed Arab coalition, would have any reason to help Israel to solve its Gaza problem without an end to the apartheid and ethnic cleansing on the West Bank. (Yes, the language is provocative, but accurate.)

  • Anonymous  On November 6, 2023 at 12:25 pm

    As an American progressive Jew, I wish you would review these pieces:

    For Jews Who Criticize Israel
    View at Medium.com

    Can You Hate Israel’s Treatment of Palestinians But Not Hate Jews?
    View at Medium.com

    What strikes me is that any American progressive should be far more critical of Israel… but only American progressive Jews (like me) can politically/ethically/rhetorically pull it off.

    What also strikes me is that ChatGPT compiled the above contextual answers in 20 seconds… why has it taken the American center/left over 75 years?

  • Anonymous  On November 6, 2023 at 12:28 pm

    Well reasoned article but I felt left out an important point–Jews have always lived in this area and were currently living in the area before WW2. 10,000 Jews lived in the Ottoman empire, and over 80,000 in the British Mandate, so the refugees fleeing Europe were joining an established community. Additionally, the reason they were heading for Palestine was that the Jewish homeland in texts, commentary, holiday traditions and culture is always referred to as this area (Next Year in Jerusalem is a Passover seder ending).

  • Anonymous  On November 6, 2023 at 2:23 pm

    While you may have left something out (inevitably), like the previous commenter’s note about Jews who were in fact there – which makes me wonder: what was the Arab/Muslim population? – this piece is a great example of why I subscribe. It is the best journalistic summary of the issues, with enough history captured, that I’ve seen. Thank you, Doug.

  • Geoff Arnold  On November 6, 2023 at 8:04 pm

    I think Doud probably thinks his readers are smart enough to do the (pretty easy) research to understand the population and demographics of the area over history. A good starting point is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_Palestine_(region) and the sources which it links to. But don’t overthink this, or try to play the game of “whose claims are stronger”. Right now, the area is home to:
    7.2M Jews
    1.9M Israeli Arabs
    2.9M Palestinians in the West Bank
    1.9M Palestinians in Gaza.

    Let’s assume that all of these people have a legitimate claim to live in the area. There’s a lot of rhetoric on both sides about “cleansing” and “expulsion” and “river to sea”, but any such “solution” would be met with international condemnation and push-back. Before Israel encouraged Hamas to take over Gaza (as a way of dividing the Palestinians politically), at least 80% of Palestinians and a majority of Israelis supported peace rather than war. So let’s continue to talk about a “just solution”, rather than the failed strategy of “managing” the situation.

    • Geoff Arnold  On November 6, 2023 at 8:06 pm

      Oops – Doug, not Doud. (Can we have a comment edit feature, pretty please? 😉 )

      • Dale Moses  On November 8, 2023 at 2:48 pm

        No. Its a wordpress thing (or whatever blog Doug uses)

  • Anonymous  On November 7, 2023 at 10:15 am

    I tend to run in more leftist circles and I might have fallen into the Jews-as-colonizers narrative that you describe here, except that I happened to be inoculated by coming across a great essay a few years ago. “The Past Didn’t Go Anywhere: Anti-Semitism on the Left” which can be found online at thepast(dot)info. Maybe other readers would enjoy.

    And thanks Doug for the responsible and humane analysis. To echo another commenter, this is a great example of why I subscribe 🙂

  • Jacqueline (Bonin) Gargiulo  On November 7, 2023 at 10:31 am

    Appreciate your willingness to address, and in your thoughtful, discerning manner.

    The thought that continues to come to mind is… war is not a spectator sport. I am not inclined to “join” any side of it, yet my heart breaks at the torment of so many.

  • Anonymous  On November 7, 2023 at 7:27 pm

    Thank you! This is what I’ve needed for awhile. I had previously tried the Atlantic article but didn’t appreciate it like I did your summary and thoughts.

  • Anonymous  On November 7, 2023 at 8:39 pm

    I agree with a previous commentator. Jews have always lived in the territory formerly controlled by the Ottomans and Turks. The very term Judaism comes from the region of Israel formerly known as Judea. Additionally they bought property and establishing kibbutzes with the blessing of the British. They are not outsiders that colonized an existing country- there was never a country called Palestine. The British offered a two state solution but the Arabs rejected it in the 1940s and several times later. These facts should have been stressed.

  • Anonymous  On November 8, 2023 at 7:02 am

    As ever, you approach the subject with respect and communicate a sense of morality that media often ignores in favor of speculation over optics.

    If we start from the premise “Jews deserve a state,” I don’t think this sort of conflict is avoidable. To say that any ethnic group deserves a state is to imply that within that state others would be at best provisional citizens. Our (US) support of an ethnostate is not a path to peace, and it doesn’t become one of we start talking about a Palestinian state either.

  • Anonymous  On November 8, 2023 at 7:05 am

    I’m afraid your historical presentation is a bit short-sighted. Your focus seems to place the start of the conflict between Jewish settlers coming to a Zionist-inspired homeland in Mandate Palestine and its Arab residents as a post-WWII event. But a review of the history of Zionism, and especially the Balfour Declaration’s commitment of the British government to support a Jewish homeland in Mandate Palestine shows that the conflict, and especially the refusal of Arab Palestinians to accept a partition of this area, began in the 1920s and culminated in the Arab uprisings of 1936-1938.

    Moreover, the land upon which Jewish immigrants settled was purchased from its owners; Western powers didn’t suddenly impose a large, foreign population upon the region and simply take possession of land and turn it over to them. The Balfour Declaration was a combination of Britain planning for post-Ottoman control of the region and its ‘genteel’ solution to the influx of Jewish refugees into the country fleeing the Russian post-revolutionary pogroms and British society’s own anti-semitism.

    Remember, too, that the world order of post-WWI was western powers (GB and France in this area) controlling this part of the Middle East, much in the same way the Ottoman Empire did before. Essentially, GB’s control of Mandate Palestine ensured a place for Jewish settlers, and when Palestinian Arabs organized and revolted in response to the influx of settlers escaping the Third Reich in the early 1930s, GB forcefully put down their attacks on settlements and British government installations. This experience led Britain to do two important things.

    First, it declared in 1939 that it would not support partitioning the territory for reasons having to do with needing Arab support in the coming WWII. Second, it declared it would end the Mandate in 10 years, leaving its inhabitants to settle its long-term future on their own. The UN proposed a partition plan in Resolution 188 in 1947, which the Arabs, of course, rejected. Facing the loss of the GB’s military support for ensuring the safety of its settlements, Israel declared its independence the day after the Mandate ended, and was immediately attacked by its Arab neighbors.

    The effects of WWII and specifically the Holocaust was the climatic tipping point for Zionism, not its effective beginning. Previously, it was not uncommon for diaspora Jews to reject Zionism because they aspired to a sense of nationalism in the countries in which they lived, believing they could be both; for example, Polish and Jewish, just as many Poles are Polish and Catholic, and have no desire to establish a Catholic homeland because they are not allowed to be considered equal members of their resident nation.

    WWII dramatically changed this perspective and taught diaspora Jews that only through the creation of a nation-state of their own could they ensure a sanctuary against a future Holocaust, and create a practical expression of “Never Again”. Regardless of the why, world-wide anti-semitism was, and continues to be, a prevailing force that refuses to accept Jews as members of the nations in which they live, but rather treats them as “others” that don’t belong there and need to be expelled. Zionism is the solution to this reality.

    Today, most of the nation-states that are Israel’s neighbors have accepted Israel’s right to exist as a nation-state, as does the international community as expressed by the UN. It is non-state actors (Hamas and Hezbollah) that continue to refuse to accept it, supported by the theocratic regime of Iran, which continues to be committed to eliminating it. It is the slogan “From the river to the sea.” that speaks to this goal of eliminating Israel, and having a single political state that is Arab/Muslim, with its Jewish residents to once again face the consequences of the state in which they live unlikely to protect them.

    Therefore, the first question any discussion of the current situation must proceed from is whether the state of Israel shall be considered axiomatic, or, in the alternative, the eventual solution to the part of Mandate Palestine that is now Israel and the Palestinian Territories includes the liquidation of the state of Israel.

    • Schnark  On November 10, 2023 at 3:47 pm

      I wish people who make such considered contributions to discussions like this would include a name for themselves.
      “Regardless of the why, world-wide anti-semitism was, and continues to be, a prevailing force that refuses to accept Jews as members of the nations in which they live, but rather treats them as “others” that don’t belong there and need to be expelled. Zionism is the solution to this reality.”
      There are many minorities in the modern world that feel this way. Israeli Jews are the only such to have the opportunity to establish a state. They have become powerful and are now able to bully their neighbours, but I believe there are wise men among them who will see that the future is not a straight road, and they should seek to deal kindly with their weaker neighbours.

  • Dale Moses  On November 8, 2023 at 3:13 pm

    >Israel wants to wind up living next to a Gaza that is stable rather than a launching pad for future attacks like the ones we just saw. But what kind of government could achieve such a goal?

    The thing is i am not sure “Israel” wants this. Or at least, the current government. They say they want this but they do not act like it. Because living next to a stable Gaza is actually easy. You can just fortify the “border” and stop using the military to expand in the West Bank. You can stop attacking Hamas and suffer a few years of minor attacks. Hamas will eventually moderate without a consistent enemy to hate. Without bombings making more radical Hamas members there will be no one left to fight the war. We were living close to that reality in 1995 before Yitzhak Rabin was assassinated by an Israeli right winger(who really wasn’t so outside the politics of current right wingers so much so that the Knesset had to pass a law preventing the President from pardoning him in 2001)

    But Israel’s government has consistently rejected that approach. They know about this approach. Its not mystifying to them. They just don’t want to do it. Rather they take exactly the opposite of this approach. They have continued to bomb and kill people in Gaza. They have purposefully waged unjust war. When members of Hamas moderate they assassinate them in order to keep Hamas radicalized.

    Because the one thing Israel clearly wants, based on their actions over the past 20 years. Is to keep the status quo going until there are no more Palestinians left. What they are doing now is not a just war against Hamas. They are not valiantly defending themselves from journalists and UN observers and children and ambulances. Its a war to get Palestinians to leave their homes so that Israel can slowly take over that land.

    Why should i believe that the current government of Israel could be trusted to enact a plan that turns government over to other Arab states with the goal of turning that over to the Palestinian Authority? It was already within the Palestinian Authority in 2005 when Hamas was first elected and Israel did everything it could to pit the two separate areas of administration against each other leading to its separation and the end of what nominal democracy the region had.

    To me this reads like a plan to get other, poorer, Arab nations to foot the bill for an area they will continue to undermine. And it would be great if the US could somehow foot this bill but the US and UK and France cannot actually do this because Israel does not want them to. If Western nations are formally involved then Israel could not continue to settle the west bank. Nor could they bomb with impunity in Gaza. This plan is another delay idea on the idea that if they delay long enough there eventually won’t be any Palestinians left to complain. They will leave and never be let back, or die.

    And we will sit here and watch it happen. The slow deaths of millions of people.

  • Anonymous  On November 9, 2023 at 5:54 pm

    Your excellent discussion of the rivalry to dehumanize each other in the Palestine/Israel conflict resonates with implications worldwide. The three religions with Semetic origins have a common source and more importantly, they are all religions of the people of the book. The concept of “sola scriptura” places absolute faith that the truth is in the written word.

    The believer in the holy book uses the recorded words to justify the emotions that govern his life choices consciously and unconsciously. Since all three (The Talmud, the New Testament, and the Quran) contain internal contradictions, their adherents can use the sacred text to justify projecting their own inner contradictions upon non-believers. Whereas classic pagans had a variety of gods to blame for their emotions and unwanted fate, monotheists were forced to create their own devil scapegoats to blame. This has unfortunate implications for sustaining the current finger-pointing and refusal to examine one’s own contributions to the conflict.

    As long as people hold onto the belief that their absolute faith is in the written word and refuse to recognize the authoritative collection of conceptions in their own heads, they will be blind to enlightened convictions discovered with an open heart governed by reason.

  • ccyager  On November 11, 2023 at 7:00 pm

    An excellent, thoughtful post. Thank you. Back on October 7, a thought I had was this: did the Palestinians want Hamas to attack Israel the way it did? What has been the relationship between Hamas and the Palestinians? Hamas has brought the death and destruction down on the Palestinians as much as the Israelis. Have the Palestinians been happy and satisfied with the way Hamas took over governing Gaza? I don’t know — was there an election? Was the Hamas government elected by the Palestinians? From listening to Netanyahu and his Defense Minister, it didn’t sound like Israel had ever credited Hamas with being a governing entity, only a terrorist organization. And what does the PA think of the Hamas governing in Gaza? While I agree wholeheartedly that the Israelis are faced with terrible choices in this war, and have allowed Netanyahu to follow his own plan, and that Israel does have a right to defend itself, I’m wondering how all those Palestinians fit into this picture? What is going to happen to them? We already know that thousands have been killed by the Israelis — although I suspect some have been killed by Hamas as well — but I believe it is crucial to bring the Palestinians to any table that exists after hostilities end, and not only the PA but also the Gazans. Israel needs to confront its past treatment of them as well.

    • pauljbradford  On November 16, 2023 at 9:50 am

      ccyage: A small minority of present-day Palestinians were alive and adults at the time of the last election, so present-day Palestinians did not choose to be governed by Hamas. Palestinians are individuals with a variety of opinions.

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