
Compared to other countries, no. But if you think the US should be “exceptional” and that climate change is a hoax, maybe.
As House Republicans get closer and closer to forcing a debt-ceiling crisis that could result in the United States defaulting on commitments it has already written into law, American citizens need to raise their understanding of how all this works. Previously, I’ve written two posts on this theme: The first explained what the debt ceiling is and why we shouldn’t have one at all. (Only the US and Denmark have debt ceilings, and Denmark doesn’t play chicken with theirs. No other country inflicts these kinds of fiscal crises on itself.) The second looked at the history of the US national debt and how it accumulated.
Now it’s time to address the main argument House Republicans are making to justify playing chicken with an economic catastrophe: Sure, the US defaulting on its commitments would be bad, but it’s worse to do nothing, because our ever-increasing spending and debt is pushing us towards an even greater catastrophe.
In other words, a self-inflicted debt-ceiling crisis is the lesser evil. Steve Moore, the Club for Growth founder that Trump tried to appoint to the Federal Reserve Board, puts it like this:
The nation’s good credit standing in the global capital markets isn’t imperiled by not passing a debt ceiling. The much-bigger danger is that Congress does extend the debt ceiling, but without any reforms in the way Congress grossly overspends.
The first part of that claim is obvious nonsense: Not passing a debt ceiling certainly does imperil the US standing in credit markets. But let’s examine the second claim: Not just that the government spends more money than some people would like, but that doing so is pushing us towards a national catastrophe.
Spending. It’s a matter of simple fact that government spending and debt have gone up considerably — both in absolute terms and as a percentage of our annual GDP — in the late Trump years and since Biden took office. Basically, the Covid pandemic both cut revenue and required enormous government spending to avoid great public suffering while the private sector was largely shut down. The necessity of that deficit spending was a bipartisan conclusion; it happened under both Trump and Biden and was supported in Congress by members of both parties.

(Notice that the extreme right of the graph above is a projection to 2050, not something that has already happened.)
That increase in the debt built on a previous run-up during the Great Recession that started in 2007. Again, the stimulus spending and tax-cutting was bipartisan; it began under Bush and continued under Obama.
But looking forward, the US faces challenges that the two parties see differently. Democrats want the government to spend money on them, while Republicans don’t.
- Democrats see climate change as a problem that requires a major restructuring of the economy, moving away from fossil fuels and towards energy from sustainable sources. However, climate change is a classic externality — a real cost that falls neither on the producer nor the consumer of fossil fuels — so the market will not make this shift without government intervention. Republicans deny that climate change is a problem.
- Democrats want to shift healthcare — nearly 1/7th of the economy — from the private sector to the public sector. Medicare began this shift in the 1960s. ObamaCare continued it, and progressives like Bernie Sanders would like to complete it. Republicans would like to stop this shift, if not roll it back.
Abstract debates about “spending” are really about these two issues, plus the perennial question of how good a safety net the US should provide for its poor: Is it enough to keep people from starving in the streets, or should the government guarantee every American a decent life, whether they can find a job or not?
It’s worth noting that the other big government expenditure — defense — is largely bipartisan. In general, progressive Democrats would like to spend less on defense and MAGA Republicans more, but neither party has a consensus for major changes in our military posture in the world.
The politics of spending. The bill House Republicans recently passed reflected these priorities: It agreed to raise the debt ceiling for about a year (at which point we’d go through the same ordeal again), in exchange for
- capping “discretionary spending” — basically everything but Social Security and Medicare — at FY 2022 levels and letting them increase by only 1% per year.
- rolling back provisions in the Inflation Reduction Act to subsidize sustainable energy, while increasing production of fossil fuels
plus a few other things. The discretionary spending cap isn’t across-the-board, but also doesn’t specify the cuts. This allows Republicans to dodge when Democrats say they’ve voted to cut some popular program like veterans’ benefits. And of course, every program that gets exempted from the cuts means that deeper cuts will be needed elsewhere.
The White House has been attacking Republicans for proposing cuts to veterans’ care. Republicans in House leadership have responded that no cuts are intended. House Speaker Kevin McCarthy has promised he will protect the military from reductions, though the bill as written does not exclude them. And Kay Granger, the chairwoman of the House Appropriations Committee, has said border security remains a top priority.
This is a feature of our politics that I’ve noted before: The American people don’t really understand where government spending goes, so they support spending cuts in the abstract, while rejecting any specific list of significant cuts.
The two parties maneuver around that phenomenon: Republicans support vague spending “caps” that don’t specifically cut anything in particular, while Democrats try to pin them down. Do they want to cut defense? Veterans benefits? Health care? Education? No, of course not. They just want to cut “spending”.
Is government spending a problem? For Republicans, this is an article of faith, but it’s really not obvious. For example, look at Wikipedia’s list of countries by government spending as a percentage of GDP. (The US total accounts not just for federal spending, but state and local as well.)
As of 2022, the US was not an outlier in either direction, spending about 38% of GDP via government. That’s less that most comparable countries: the UK (45%), Germany (50%), Canada (41%), and France (58%) for example. But it’s also more than Switzerland (34%) and Israel (37%), and almost exactly the same as Australia.

And while government spending has been generally rising over the decades — it was less than 20% of GDP a century ago — the increase doesn’t look precipitous or out of control.
In short, if you argue that the US has a spending problem, what you’re implicitly saying is that we shouldn’t be like other nations. If you regard Germany or France as cautionary tales, then we need to cut spending before we wind up like them. On the other hand, if you envy countries like Denmark (49%), the Netherlands (45%), and Finland (54%) — Finland regularly comes out on top of polls about public happiness — then you can only shake your head at this “out-of-control spending” talk.
The ledger has two sides. So while the “spending problem” is debatable, it is obvious that the national debt is growing. Intuitively this seems bad (though I’ll push discussing how bad it really is off to a later post). But jumping immediately from a debt problem to a spending problem is sleight-of-hand. Spending 38% of GDP (or 50% or even more) through the public sector doesn’t necessarily create debt if we’re willing to pay taxes at that level.
Our debt problem (from the same Wikipedia list) comes from the fact that we’re only paying 33% of GDP in taxes. This is not high by comparison with other countries. South Korea pays 27% and Ireland 23%, but just about every other country we might compare ourselves to pays more: Germany 47%, Canada 41%, the United Kingdom 39%, and so on.
So it’s disingenuous to frame the debt as a national crisis, but take taxes off the table. In particular, the Trump tax cuts went mainly to corporations and the very rich, while adding trillions to the debt over a ten-year period. Most spending cuts are unpopular in themselves, but they’re particularly unpopular when you pair them with tax cuts, as in “We have to kick your cousin off Medicaid so that billionaires can keep the tax cuts Trump gave them.”

The private sector isn’t magic. Much of the debate about government spending is really about whether some necessary expense winds up in the public or private sector. We could, for example, cut government spending overnight just by closing all the public schools. Kids would still need to be educated, and most middle-class-and-above families would find some way to send their own kids to private schools (maybe with help from grandparents). Taxes could go down, but private expenses would go up.
Ditto for Social Security. We could end it an save everybody taxes. But you’d also have to worry about whether your parents or grandparents were starving, and maybe they’d have to move in with you.
All our highways could be toll roads run by private corporations. Taxes could go down, but you’d have to pay tolls.
The point I’m making here is that nothing magic happens when we move an expenditure from the public to the private sector or vice versa. Somebody still has to teach the kids, take care of the sick, and pave the highways. You don’t necessarily save anything just by paying those people out of a different piggy bank.
That observation is going to be important the next time we consider expanding national health care. Conservatives are going to freak out about the massive increase in government spending. “OMG! We can’t afford this!” But if the net effect is that taxes replace health-insurance premiums, we can. That’s the main reason government spending (and taxation) is higher in places like France and Germany: They’re buying stuff through the public sector that we buy through the private sector. People still wind up paying doctors and nurses to take care of them, but the money traverses a different route.
Spending and democracy. Finally, we need to recognize that the current situation results largely from what the American people want: The particular programs the government spends money are popular, while taxes are unpopular. The current spending and taxing levels were passed by the Congress the people elected.
The point of using the debt ceiling as a hostage-taking tactic is to circumvent democracy. Yes, the people did narrowly elect a House Republican majority in 2022, but Republican candidates ran on issues that have largely vanished from the House Republican agenda, like crime. They certainly did not run on a list of spending cuts, and in fact they still have not produced such a list, because they know it would be unpopular.
The American people have also elected a Democratic Senate majority and a Democratic President. (Both of those happened in spite of structural factors that allow Republicans to win without representing a majority of voters, like the small-state bias in the Senate and the Electoral College.) The Republican House should not get to control the agenda simply because they are apparently willing to push the economy’s self-destruct button unless they get their way.
So what should happen? The debt ceiling should play no role, and Congress should work out a budget for next year, adjusting both the taxing and spending sides of the ledger. Republicans should have a bigger say in the next budget than the last one, because they won the House majority. But both parties should publish their budget priorities and see how the American people like them.
So is there a spending problem? Not really. Not by international standards and not compared to what the people want. What the government spends money on may or may not be what you want it to spend money on. But that’s why we have elections.
Comments
Maybe the world is not black or white like the politicians make it but shades of grey.
Take climate, happiness index and court cases against both Trump and Biden as example.
If we look at climate in perspective of 100, 500 or precession of equinoxes 25,920 years or the Antarctic Cold Reversal climate change 14,500-13,000 years ago it looks very different.
CO2 is food for vegetation but caused colossal tsunamis and floods of biblical proportions 13,000 years ago sinking Doggerland in Europe, Edinhu in India, watering down the Sahara to start the South Nile Civilization 12,500-7,000 years ago before returning to desert and Egypt taking over.
While humans certainly today have impact they did not 13,000 years ago when we were maybe 4 million not 8 billion.
What then caused it? The precession of equinoxes wobbling our planet putting pressure on tectonic rifts causing some of the 20,000 Sea Flor volcanoes to emit heat melting glaciers from underneath like CNN and Reuters reported a few months ago.
Happiest People is where my own roots are from and the index was created by UN to match conditions not asking the Finnic people how happy they were.
The parties in power most of the past 50 years just lost with 1/3 to the 2/3 now putting a government together indicating that happy people the Finnic were not but instead looking for change.
As to the lawsuits surrounding the Trump and Biden families they both have enough resources to defend themselves and more important to our country is the believability of an impartial judiciary in the minds of all citizens because it serves us as citizens to be treated equally and these court cases will once reaching their end give us all more clarity.
The idea that spending and taxes should balance, over a fiscal period or a business cycle or ever is specious, since spending (government money creation) and taxes (government money destruction) serve different needs.
The objective of Government fiscal operations is provisioning the Government. The amount of spending needs to be sufficient to pay for public benefits as deemed necessary and appropriate by the political process, including full employment. The amount of taxes needs to be sufficient to maintain the value of the money (by controlling existing supply) as deemed appropriate by the political process. There is no law or logic of economics or finance or accounting that says those things must balance.
Republican complaints about the debt are either ignorance, or more likely bad faith attempts to cut spending they don’t like.
Expressed like the way you did certainly not.
A prudent frugal budgetary process utilizing limited resources of the burden on taxpayers maximizing the result of monetary resources with a reserve for a rainy day like a war like situation is proactive vs reactive and we have many times seen that there is an optimum point where contributors of taxes either become receivers of taxes or where contributors simply move out of state or country when optimum point is reached.
It’s neither a law it is common sense. We have long ago reached the point where debt service together with entitlements reach a level where taxes cannot be raised.
An example was in Sweden POMPERIPOSSA by Astrid Lindgren where effective tax rate exceeded 100% forcing her to sell property to pay taxes.
Social security was once self sufficient and could have been kept like a separate trust with excess invested like the Norweigian oil fund but instead was raided by politicians writing IOUs creating situation we see in France today.
@ Creigh Gordon
Its probably not best to think about the point of spending versus taxes in terms of money creation and destruction even if those are a side effect of taxes and spending. This is because we can create money and destroy money far more effectively in other ways. The Fed is simply far better at creating and destroying money than fiscal policy is. Both in terms of speed and in terms of a reduction in distortionary effects.
Spending is about what percentage of the countries output should be put towards the public good(and what that public good is). And taxation is about whose captured output should go towards funding it.
You’re right in that republican complaints are bad faith. The problem they have is that they do not believe in the public good. And do not believe that their captured output should go towards funding it.
@professor Tom
No. That is nonsense. The idea that debt service and entitlements mean taxes cannot be raised is nonsense. Pomperipossa did not result from tax increases from 18.7% to 19.7%* but an error in the tax legislation that applied two taxes that meant to be applied to different classes of organization to a single person. Specifically this is with regards to the way that personal and corporate income tend to be defined because of the way that personal revenue tends to be more closely associated with income than corporate revenue. That is. If a company pays a person a salary they do not pay taxes on that portion of the salary. Because salary is a cost and therefore not income. And a person pays taxes on (roughly the whole of) their salary because that is income for them. Pomperipossa was the result of the corporate tax, when applied to the individual paying themselves not accounting for their accounting of the situation.
But it is otherwise not terribly hard to design tax structures without poverty traps. The reason we do not do this has nothing to do with the difficulty in writing tax law but in the politics of who wants what people to pay for things and why. Republicans (and voters in general, since they, like you, tend to not understand how efficient tax law should work) significantly get in the way of efficient programs and their proposed cuts make the situation worse for people not at high incomes.
Furthermore money is not a “resource”. Money is a representation of a resource. Specifically the resource is “the sum total of stuff that gets done in the country in any given year”. If the government holds money and does not do anything with it then this changes the value of the money rather than modifying the actual resource. The government cannot actually “reserve money” except by holding foreign debt because holding money does not modify the sum total of stuff that gets done in the country in any given year. Only by having foreign countries owe our country some portion of their “sum total of stuff that gets done in their country in any given year” in a future year can we do this.
This is why Mr Gordon described taxation and spending in the way he did. These are direct and necessary side effects of taxation and spending (and the reason why we have separate monetary policy through the fed in order to minimize these is because tying fiscal policy to monetary policy goals is not ideal. Because ideal fiscal policy is about solving collective action problems not about managing inflation and employment**). If we forget that money is not actually a resource we are going to crash our economy by misallocating resources between those things the public needs to pay for and private individuals as well as bungling the careful balance between inflation and employment.
*That is, current US tax rates to the tax rates needed to significantly reduce deficit growth. Though we could sustain increases up to probably 30%. and if you’re like “but taxes are higher than that” well… you’re wrong. Current revenue as a percent of GDP is 18.7%. Thems the federal taxes. Its an identity. It cannot be different.
**it can be about this but only when monetary policy has been so remiss as to not reset to reasonable interest rates. Which was one of the problems in the years after the great recession.
Nonsense you say ?
Would it not be wonderful if printing money to our liking had no consequences?
Or borrowing had no interest or other consequences?
Utopia is however not real!
When the Soviet Union collapsed the ruble that was not convertible certainly proved that consequence of no backing and huge inflation. Between my visits a taxi went from one banknote to a bundle of same notes and then the bundle was bigger than the taxi.
I find it hard to understand why anybody would be opposed to most effective use of any resource particularly money?
We can argue amongst us citizens politically who should capture and control the usage of this limited resource but wasting it is in nobody’s interest.
If any elected government function can feed, house and care humanely for a needy citizen for say $1000 by doing it effectively instead of using $1200, the effectiveness leaves $200 towards the second needy one instead of wasting it.
In a world with 8 billion of which 8% live under what we know as some kind of freedom and democracy every penny counts.
Having helped privately 30 children in 20 countries needing to earn the money with which I helped efficiency made all the difference.
If it pleases you, public companies are not much better shepherds of other peoples money and the fat that accumulates over the years unless addressed is almost as bad as government as the shepherd.
Jimmy Carter was a kind human being but his enormous inflation hurt the poor people he wanted to help, more than what all his programs intended to help actually helped.
Efficiency benefits all
Professor Tom,
Money is a resource, but not a limited one if you have a printing press or a platinum coin maker, which the Federal Government does. Labor, materials, equipment and infrastructure, natural resources and technical knowhow are limited resources that constrain what the Federal Government can do, and nobody with any rational sense advocates wasting these real and limited resources. But the Federal Government is never financially constrained as long as its bills are payable in US Dollars.
What confuses people is the term borrowing. When people refer to Federal Government borrowing, they are referring to the swap of Treasury bonds (which the Treasury prints) for currency (which the Fed prints). Both Federal Reserve notes and Treasury bonds (printed on the same equipment!) are financial assets of the private sector (us) and corresponding liabilities–that is, debts–of the Federal Government. The open market swap of one form of Government debt created by the Treasury for another form of Government debt created by the Fed is not borrowing, in any sense of the term that you or I would recognize. The nearest analogy I can think of is a person buying a bank Certificate of Deposit. This is just a swap of checking account money (a bank liability) for a CD (also a bank liability). Nobody considers this borrowing on the part of the bank, because the bank’s total liabilities do not increase, and an increase in liability is the hallmark of borrowing. (If you borrow your neighbor’s lawn mower, you have increased your total liabilities by one lawn mower. That’s borrowing.)
Dale Moses,
I meant what I said about creation and destruction of money literally, and fiscal operations are what do that. The Fed simply swaps Federal Reserve Notes that it creates out of thin air for bonds that the Treasury creates out of thin air. Both are financial assets of the private sector, and in practice can easily be swapped one for the other, depending if you need current spending power or interest. To put it in terms as above, the Fed will cash your CDs if that’s what you want.
And yes, tax policy is about whose output should be taxed. Not because taxes fund the Federal Government (money printing, including bond printing, does) but because another legitimate objective of tax policy is implementing public policy in the distribution of wealth and income.
You outline clearly why we should never have left the gold standard. The “value” of the dollar is ultimately the rate of exchange a country business partner has agreed to and the way we are going trust is going out of the window and the value of the dollar not buying what once it did.
Gordon you are confusing the fact that fiscal policy creates and destroys money with the idea that that is its purpose. Because money creation and destruction is not limited to physically creating and destroying money. Money in circulation matters too. Money held at the fed is not in circulation. Its not being spent, it does not count. (literally FRED doesn’t count it).
And no, Tax policy does determine who funds the government. Not because fiscal policy doesn’t create and destroy money but because it prevents those who no longer have it from spending it, because those people cannot create and destroy money. And if the people taxed cannot spend it then it is “their” portion of GDP that went for the thing that the government did. We swap the production the taxed would have demanded for the production the government demanded. They pay for it.
The reason that balancing the budget matters (to an extent) is that there is a limit to the amount of production we shift into the future by asking people to accept future money as opposed to current production. This willingness to do so is not infinite. The government cannot make GDP by spending all the money and taxing none. GDP is limited. Taxes really do fund the government.
@Professor Tom.
No. Lol no. Backed currencies are bad currencies and inflation (in small amounts) is good. The reasons for this is because the value of a currency needs to be able to float with regards to goods. Backed currency has problems with the backing currency suddenly becoming more valuable in real terms (like say, if it was useful for electronics) because this all of a sudden changes the prices of all goods. Any currency in which the value does not degrade produces problems with deflationary pressures. Because holding currency becomes a legitimate investment strategy, which leads to less currency in the system which leads to a higher value of this currency which leads to more investment. See Bitcoin for this problem. No one buys anything with BTC. Because its a shitty currency. (and a bad investment too, because it doesn’t actually represent anything that produces income or does anything)
Dale I agree with your comments on Bitcoin.
The Swiss Franc is considered together with gold the best havens if the dollar would collapse and one reason CFH is considered this is their low debt. Nixon took us off gold because of growing redemption by other nations of the dollar for gold because of our debt making it over valued.
Using same logic we have the highest debt since WW2 in relation to the GNP and the others are circling the wagon to challenge the dollar because GNP into the future is uncertain and you seem to be more confident in a depression not coming within the next 12 months than I – why?
To put this in a ridiculously simple yet fully accurate form:
The objective of Federal Government fiscal operations is provisioning the Government. (I said that above.) That is, buying stuff and hiring people for the purpose of establishing justice, providing for the common defense, etc. etc.
The fiscal operations consist of two things: creating money and offering it to the private sector as payment for goods and services the Government needs for establishing justice, providing for the common defense, etc. etc. The Government motivates the private sector to accept its money by requiring the private sector–under threat of force if it comes to that–to return some of the money to the Treasury as tax payment. Returning the money to the Treasury effectively cancels it (it was mostly just ledger entries anyway).
The accumulated difference between what the Government has created and spent and what it has taxed and canceled, aka the National Debt, is retained by the private sector as money. It circulates in the private sector, facilitating private economic transactions and satisfying a desire for financial savings.
The separate purposes and logics of spending and taxes do not require that the two things balance, whether over a fiscal period or business cycle or ever. The status of the budget, be it deficit or balance or surplus, should be judged and managed based only on its effects on real economic parameters like unemployment and inflation. (This was my original point way up above). Generally we will want a moderate deficit for its beneficial effects on unemployment and inflation (or not, if you’re a Republican and hate government anyway.).
Also, bonds do not move production into the future. Treasury bonds are “store of value” money. The Fed, as I mentioned earlier, will buy bonds and pay with the currency it creates in any amount you like as long as you’re willing to forego whatever interest the bond would have paid.
>The separate purposes and logics of spending and taxes do not require that the two things balance, whether over a fiscal period or business cycle or ever
Kind of? They do not need to balance per se but they do need to be balanceable. That is. There does exist a steady state increasing amount of debt that is sustainable but this does not mean that any steady state increasing amount of debt is sustainable.
But you need to have a proper understanding of how debt works in order to understand this. Because yo
>Also, bonds do not move production into the future
You are correct. I was referring specifically to consumption. But did not want to change terms. The production being referred to is the total amount of production an individual makes. They can either consume this now, or buy a bond and transfer that consumption into the future. That is the purpose of buying bonds. But C+I=Y so so can really think of it like transferring your production into the future.
>The Government motivates the private sector to accept its money by requiring the private sector–under threat of force if it comes to that–to return some of the money to the Treasury as tax payment. Returning the money to the Treasury effectively cancels it (it was mostly just ledger entries anyway).
This is not really true. At least not anymore. That isn’t to say that taxes don’t do this but this is not the fundamental purpose of taxes.
Maybe this will make sense. Not all things are taxed the same and not all income levels are taxed the same. There is a reason for this and its not because we want to ensure that people pay taxes as a means of ensuring people use our currency.
There really is a limit to the amount of stuff that can be done in any given year. Your income really is a representation of that amount of stuff that you have acquired or produced over a given year. And the loss of that income to taxes really does mean that you are paying for the government.
The Fed exists to in order to maintain stable employment and inflation. Not fiscal policy. And we know this not just because the Fed exists and that is its mandate. But because we can track the efficacy of the fed in doing that as it has changed its methods. Fiscal policy tends to be exceedingly bad at managing money supplies. Its a thing you have to deal with, rather than a thing you do in order to manage. At least anymore. Since we have become so much better at managing money supplies.
Another reason why this unhinged spending of taxpayer money must stop – just came this morning across my desk and it’s scary. Read !
“
Researchers at the Department of Defense wrote a devastating takedown of the Proximal Origin study, which was used by Dr. Anthony Fauci as proof that the COVID-19 virus had come from nature.
The takedown, dated May 26, 2020, was written in the form of a working paper called “Critical analysis of Andersen et al. The proximal origin of SARS-CoV-2.” It was authored by Commander Jean-Paul Chretien, a Navy doctor working at the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency, and Dr. Robert Cutlip, a research scientist at the Defense Intelligence Agency.
The paper came to light on May 15, when it was leaked to the public via virus origins search group DRASTIC(Decentralized Radical Autonomous Search Team Investigating COVID-19).
It is now 100% proven that our government was aware that origin of the COVID was from the Communist China Wuhan lab that Fauchi had awarded US taxpayer money, to conduct illegal research into gain-of-function, and that he lied to Nature Magazine, President Trump and the World about, by creating the Proximal Origin Fake Study.
This is treason to the United States and genocide of the worlds population and must be punished. “
Can somebody explain how one single person can send our money to our enemies to create a virus to kill our people ?
Are both parties and our government so corrupt that they allowed this to happen?
I had many friends die in COVID and I was close myself 3/20.
We don’t have a spending problem; we have a paying-for-it problem, thanks to round after round of tax cuts for the uber-wealthy and large corporations, just as the lobbyists who own Congress demand.
If we simply return to pre-Reagan tax rates (pre-Kennedy would be even better), there will be plenty of revenue available to use to pay for the debt Congress voted to take on. And it will be an acknowledgement that our current economic system of social welfare for the wealthy produces income for a infinitesimally small number of individuals that has absolutely no relationship to earned value and should be levied and returned to the society making it possible in the first place.
The inefficiency in using the funds taken through taxation is the biggest problem and corruption. If we can loose billions in Afghanistan and on COVID because we don’t treat hard earned money confiscated through taxation we will never have enough.
If we agreed on say providing healthcare to all citizens then most cost efficient way it should be implemented not to benefit political class but rather citizens.
Denmark is good example at this.
Purpose of taxation is not punishment or envy it’s providing safety and opportunities for citizens.
What fatuous twaddle. Taxes are the membership fee we pay for living in a civilized society. The idea that income, and especially the vast majority of 1%ers’ income, is “hard earned” and then “confiscated” is the kind of fantasy rhetoric that pretends any earning short of working in a drug cartel doesn’t need and enjoy the benefits of the legal systems governments provide. It’s the classic something-for-nothing attitude that shapes so much of right-wing economic libertarian hogwash.
Lord Romney lounges around his pool all day while he sends his money out to work; the vast majority of it should be “confiscated”. And those actually working at subsistence-level jobs so others can gain from their labor should receive some of Lord Romney’s rent-seeking back as a tax credit.
Moreover, the inefficiencies of the private sector in some activities is markedly greater than the public. A great example of this is in providing health insurance for most people. A typical monthly premium for family coverage negotiated by a large employer is ~$1500. If we provided the same coverage via Single Payer / M4A, we could reduce that premium enough to both cover the taxes charged against that compensation that now goes to the employee along with the needed tax increase to pay for the coverage and still leave that employee with $400-$500 more in his pocket. Of course, some grossly overpaid CEOs will need to find new work, but at least they’re not pulling down 10-figure compensation packages from scheming to deny paying for other people’s sicknesses.
Only a person who’s never had to really work long, hard hours for minimum wages and worry about how his family is going to survive would even entertain the idea that a progressive taxation system is the result of “envy” or motivated by “punishment”. Winning the birth lottery and all that comes with it should never be confused with the fiction of the “self-made man”. There is no such thing. What there is is an economic system with extremes completely disconnected from actual fair value, and taxation is an excellent way of correcting for this.
Your personal attack on me requires retort !!!!
Taxes are the membership fee we pay for living in a civilized society.
NO THEY ARE NOT AS WE DON’T INDIVIDUALLY DECIDE WHAT WE WISH TO PAY.
The idea that income, and especially the vast majority of 1%ers’ income, is “hard earned” and then “confiscated” is the kind of fantasy rhetoric that pretends any earning short of working in a drug cartel doesn’t need and enjoy the benefits of the legal systems governments provide. It’s the classic something-for-nothing attitude that shapes so much of right-wing economic libertarian hogwash.
COMPENSATION IS AN AGREEMENT BETWEEN AN EMPLOYER AND EMPLOYEE OF WHAT ONE BUYS AND THE OTHER SELLS. NOBODY MUST TAKE A JOB.
RISK TAKING CREATES INNOVATION AND JOBS AND TAKES PLACE BECAUSE OF REWARD.
Lord Romney (WHO IS HE?) lounges around his pool all day while he sends his money out to work; the vast majority of it should be “confiscated”. And those actually working at subsistence-level jobs so others can gain from their labor should receive some of Lord Romney’s rent-seeking back as a tax credit.
IF YOU DISAGREE WITH THE TAX CODE CHANGE IT.
Moreover, the inefficiencies of the private sector in some activities is markedly greater than the public.
INEFFICIENCIES BUT WITH YOUR OWN PRIVATE MONEY NOT WITH OTHER PEOLES MONEY IS DIFFERENCE .
PAY MORE TAXES IF YOU LIKE, WHO STOPS YOU ?
A great example of this is in providing health insurance for most people. A typical monthly premium for family coverage negotiated by a large employer is ~$1500. If we provided the same coverage via Single Payer / M4A, we could reduce that premium enough to both cover the taxes charged against that compensation that now goes to the employee along with the needed tax increase to pay for the coverage and still leave that employee with $400-$500 more in his pocket.
EMPLOYER USING OWN MONEY OFFERS – EMPLOYEE NOT FORCED TO ACCEPT.
Of course, some grossly overpaid CEOs will need to find new work, but at least they’re not pulling down 10-figure compensation packages from scheming to deny paying for other people’s sicknesses.
Strange assumptions that these are connected.
Only a person who’s never had to really work long, hard hours for minimum wages and worry about how his family is going to survive would even entertain the idea that a progressive taxation system is the result of “envy” or motivated by “punishment”.
I WAS BORN DIRT POOR IN WAR TORN COUNTRY WE COUNTED COINS FRIDAY BEFORE BUYING FOOD IF WE COULD AFFORD SLEEPING 4 in one bed – try it gives character !!!
THREE JOBS PAID MY COLLEGE DELIVERING NEWSPAPERS WALKING UP TO SIXTH FLOR, REPOSESSING CARS ENGINEERING CAROUSEL 100 hour weeks Yes I know what poverty is – do you?
Winning the birth lottery and all that comes with it should never be confused with the fiction of the “self-made man”.
30 KIDS IN 20 COUNTRIES WON THAT LOTTERY WHEN I PAID THEIR EDUCATIONS 30 YEARS – and you? Who do you help with your own money ?
There is no such thing. What there is is an economic system with extremes completely disconnected from actual fair value, and taxation is an excellent way of correcting for this.
WHEN IN BIZ CREATED 1000 NEW JOBS – why are you so envious of successful ? I visited 173 countries and not one country comes near to where we are in freedom and opportunities. – just need to work hard and smart – knew one person here when I came 40 years ago and English my third language you were born with language and friends – what went wrong ?
How about you?
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